2010-04-02 12:33![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
junipersky
juniperskyAlma 12:10-11
" 10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell."
I was reading a comment thread for an article about marriage from KSL this morning. As normal, there were a lot of once-Mormons touting their anti-Mormon ideals, and just as many argumentative Mormons responding in exactly the wrong way. I have no desire to get involved in the debate, but it had me thinking. As I was reading in my scriptures just now I stumbled across these two verses in the Book of Mormon, and the comments made by the anti-Mormons suddenly make sense.
If they have chosen to harden their hearts insomuch that they can no longer even entertain the idea that there might be truth in the Gospel, then I would say they are receiving a lesser portion. The Lord gives freely to those who wish knowledge, but that knowledge is only acquired though quite a bit of effort. Nothing is 'free' in the gospel. What I mean by this is, nothing comes without sacrifice. The Lord requires us to show our commitment, even if this is shown by simply stopping for 30 seconds every morning and evening to say a prayer. Those who have chosen to harden their hearts have stopped making those tiny sacrifices that are our side of the covenant with the Lord. It makes sense then, in light of what Alma says, that they would fall further and further away from the gospel. The light and truth that they once had is fading, and soon will be gone. They do not have to participate in sin to fall, but simply stop striving.
If you're losing your knowledge and light, then yes, it will become almost impossible to believe in the Gospel once again. No one joins a religion, or stays devout, without a feeling of 'rightness'. Those who have fallen no longer have the knowledge they once based their faith on.
This is a side note, but I want to explore that idea a little more. Faith without knowledge is such a silly concept. I've been accused before of being a blind follower, even by people that I assumed cared for me and who also believed they cared (see: Drake). The reality is that I do study my religion. I know as many ins and outs of Mormonism as Chey does about Catholicism, and what I do not know comes from two sources:
1. I haven't learned it yet, because my study has not taken that course.
2. The information has not been revealed to man yet. Just before verse 10 Alma states, "It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according tot he portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him."
We have enough knowledge given unto us to be able to achieve eternal life. (Eternal life, meaning we get to live with Heavenly Father forever.) Everything else is extra and in simple crude words not important. Therefore, I am comfortable not knowing all of the ins and outs. I'll do my best to find out, but if the General Authorities have not spoken of it, and it is not in the scriptures, then I can safely assume, because of my faith in the wisdom of these leaders, that it is unimportant. I base my faith on the knowledge which I have received though my studies and that which the Holy ghost has given unto me.
It's a cycle. The more you sacrifice the more you know, the more you know, the more faith you have, the more faith you have, the more hope you have that things will turn out as you believe, the more hope you have the more you are willing to sacrifice. This can continue forever till one has All sacrifice, all knowledge, all faith, and all hope. I like it.
" 10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell."
I was reading a comment thread for an article about marriage from KSL this morning. As normal, there were a lot of once-Mormons touting their anti-Mormon ideals, and just as many argumentative Mormons responding in exactly the wrong way. I have no desire to get involved in the debate, but it had me thinking. As I was reading in my scriptures just now I stumbled across these two verses in the Book of Mormon, and the comments made by the anti-Mormons suddenly make sense.
If they have chosen to harden their hearts insomuch that they can no longer even entertain the idea that there might be truth in the Gospel, then I would say they are receiving a lesser portion. The Lord gives freely to those who wish knowledge, but that knowledge is only acquired though quite a bit of effort. Nothing is 'free' in the gospel. What I mean by this is, nothing comes without sacrifice. The Lord requires us to show our commitment, even if this is shown by simply stopping for 30 seconds every morning and evening to say a prayer. Those who have chosen to harden their hearts have stopped making those tiny sacrifices that are our side of the covenant with the Lord. It makes sense then, in light of what Alma says, that they would fall further and further away from the gospel. The light and truth that they once had is fading, and soon will be gone. They do not have to participate in sin to fall, but simply stop striving.
If you're losing your knowledge and light, then yes, it will become almost impossible to believe in the Gospel once again. No one joins a religion, or stays devout, without a feeling of 'rightness'. Those who have fallen no longer have the knowledge they once based their faith on.
This is a side note, but I want to explore that idea a little more. Faith without knowledge is such a silly concept. I've been accused before of being a blind follower, even by people that I assumed cared for me and who also believed they cared (see: Drake). The reality is that I do study my religion. I know as many ins and outs of Mormonism as Chey does about Catholicism, and what I do not know comes from two sources:
1. I haven't learned it yet, because my study has not taken that course.
2. The information has not been revealed to man yet. Just before verse 10 Alma states, "It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according tot he portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him."
We have enough knowledge given unto us to be able to achieve eternal life. (Eternal life, meaning we get to live with Heavenly Father forever.) Everything else is extra and in simple crude words not important. Therefore, I am comfortable not knowing all of the ins and outs. I'll do my best to find out, but if the General Authorities have not spoken of it, and it is not in the scriptures, then I can safely assume, because of my faith in the wisdom of these leaders, that it is unimportant. I base my faith on the knowledge which I have received though my studies and that which the Holy ghost has given unto me.
It's a cycle. The more you sacrifice the more you know, the more you know, the more faith you have, the more faith you have, the more hope you have that things will turn out as you believe, the more hope you have the more you are willing to sacrifice. This can continue forever till one has All sacrifice, all knowledge, all faith, and all hope. I like it.
Hmm.
e.g. Blessed Mother Teresa was convinced for years before her death, and it may never have changed, that she had been totally abandoned by God - either that, or God had never existed.
and it is considered part of getting closer to God that God will take away some, or most, or all of one's spiritual consolations - the feeling of rightness, the feeling of being loved, the feeling of joy in the sacraments... to allow us to still love Him without them. (And to allow us to participate in Christ's cry from the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?")
That said, though, yes, "fides quarens intellectum", or "faith seeks understanding" - once you have faith, you begin to understand, and once you understand, your faith grows, and as it grows, you understand more fully, and then of course in Heaven "we shall know fully, as now we are fully known". :)
Re: Hmm.
Christ had to be left alone. It was part of his duty to face that which no man would ever have to. It is part of his atonement for mankind. He suffered MORE than any man. I could never believe that he, after having been left alone, would allow us to be left alone. It was necessary for him, it is absolutely not necessary for us. So long as we are living true to /everything/ that we have learned (no offense, but I am implying that those you speak of are neglecting some part of the light that they have received) then the Light of Christ shall be with us. D&C 82:10 "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise."
I've felt the influence of the Holy Spirit leave when I sin. It is the most terrible thing that happens to me. Worse then when my brother had his accident. Worse than when a good friend died. I feel as if I cannot live without that light in my life.
Re: Hmm.
Hmm, maybe we're talking at somewhat cross-purposes again. That sort of thing Catholics with well-formed consciences can expect to feel, I think, though I suppose I wouldn't be surprised to find that the Lord might take away every consolation including that one. But, I mean, I can tell a difference in my... spiritual health, I guess, between right before confession and right after it, or right before I make a particularly good act of contrition (== some prayers are actions, not just words, and they're often called "acts" as a result) and right after I have made one. And I don't think I've been particularly blessed to have that, at least not above the blessing that is being raised in an environment where my conscience wasn't malformed.
But for the meat of my comment and your reply, though, it seems our churches do not agree, which only makes sense, otherwise they'd be in full communion, right? :)